Beyond the Surface: Plastic Surgery and Mental Wellness
Eric Bell with Dr. Jason Hall
SEASON 2 | EPISODE 11
How can plastic surgery both empower individuals and provide deeper insights into self-acceptance? In this episode, host Eric Bell engages in a profound discussion with plastic surgeon Dr. Jason Hall about the motivations and mental health impacts of cosmetic and reconstructive procedures.
The motivations guiding cosmetic and reconstructive choices vary widely and Dr. Jason shed light on the delicate balance between finding confidence amidst the natural aging process, and finding confidence through youthful appearances. Dr. Hall also discusses how they screen for body dysmorphia and work to determine if surgery is the right solution.
Tune in to gain insights into the transformative journey of those choosing plastic surgery and the intersection of physical transformation and mental well-being.
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Dr. Jason Hall 0:00
I see patients in my office that some of the alarm bells are going off. They're kind of ticking boxes of things that kind of raise the red flags for a patient that may have some body dysmorphia issues is really kind of hammering in on what we're actually trying to fix that I found in my own practice is a good way to start that conversation.
Eric Bell 0:36
Hey, guys, I'm Eric Bell, and this is turning on the light. Life is a journey of transformations. And I know this all too well. In the midst of relentless hustle, I got my own wake up call, the pause button pressed by life itself. And that's what makes this show all the more personal. And all the more crucial. turning on the light isn't just a podcast. It's a testament to resilience, a celebration of vulnerability, and the gentle reminder that we're all connected through our stories. Thank you for being a part of this journey with me as we continue to normalize the conversation around mental health. I encourage you to kick back and relax with an open heart and a curious spirit. I hope you enjoy this episode.
Welcome to the podcast turning on the light. Today I have a special guest. It's the new year. So Happy New Year to everybody. And my guest today is Dr. Jason all Jason, welcome to the show.
Dr. Jason Hall 1:30
Thanks so much, Eric. I
Eric Bell 1:31
appreciate it. Yeah. Jason, I found this conversation as I was thinking about it prior to you and I talking. And in fact, you and I talked recently because my wife had some experiences with you. And so you and I decided to talk a little bit about it. And at that time, I was like, Man, this would be a great conversation to have not many people would think that I bring on a plastic surgeon to talk about mental health. But I think that when you and I were discussing some of the good, the bad and the ugly, just kind of in general, and you were asking me about the podcast. It just brought up a lot of stuff. And so I'm excited to dive into this conversation with you.
Dr. Jason Hall 2:09
Well, I appreciate you. Appreciate you having me on it. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Yeah, I
Eric Bell 2:13
think that, you know, we kind of laughed about it. But you're in the business, everybody is New Year's, New Year's resolutions, new everything. And you're in the business of right taking that to the extreme. That's one way to put it. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about who you are first. For those who don't know, you. I know we have local listeners, but also listeners outside the area. But tell us a little bit about yourself and who you are. And besides the fact that you're a plastic surgeon, I mean, how long have you been doing this? And what was your motivation to get into this?
Dr. Jason Hall 2:44
So I appreciate it. I grew up here. So after I left, never intending to ever come back. I was I was one of those people that, you know, I couldn't leave East Tennessee quick enough, okay, and went to college over North Carolina at Wake Forest, stayed there for medical school and then went down to Dallas to do general surgery, I actually had no intention of going into plastic surgery at all. I went into medicine, my dad's a physician. And so that was kind of always the path and then got to Dallas with the intent of becoming a pediatric general surgeon. Okay, that was, you know, working on little babies, and what
Eric Bell 3:24
was the motivation? What, like, what was the draw of pediatric surgery?
Dr. Jason Hall 3:29
Part of it was that it was really cool. Yeah, you know, the operations that you've read about in the textbooks are really neat. And it's really fine, detailed work. I mean, when you're working on a neonate, you know, a kid that's negative two months old. There's a lot of really technical parts of it that I found attractive as I was going through training, and then I got to see it early on in my residency training program. And just the part of it. The day to day is absolutely grueling. I have nothing but utmost respect for the pediatric general surgeons out there. It is a grueling profession. And so I started looking around at different things from it, really from a purely technical side of it. And was was really taken with the microsurgical aspect of plastic surgery. And so that kind of turned my career pathways towards plastics and went finished general surgery, did a five year residency in general surgery, finished that boarded in general surgery, and then went down to Houston to the Texas Medical Center and did plastic surgery for two years. And it was when I was there. I kind of got bitten by the pediatric bug again, because the pediatric part of it Plastic Surgery, cleft lips and palates and congenital deformities and things like that was a part of the discipline I really didn't know a whole lot about. So, departed Houston went out to Stanford did a year of nothing but head neck facial surgery, mostly jaws, and babies. But certainly there was a cosmetic part to that too, which was a very, very small out there. And then went back to Houston joined a buddy. And most of our practice was microsurgical. Breast reconstruction. Okay, in we did really long complex operations. And after a while that became, Houston was a great city, love it, still have friends and family down there. But my folks were getting older. And my brothers moved out to Utah. And so I was like, Okay, it's either we either I was at a point in my career, whether we either we either laid down roots and stayed in Houston forever, or picked up and came back closer to home. So we looked around my wife and I looked around, didn't know exactly where we wanted to land. And so we said, well, forget it, let's just open our own shop and go from there. And so we've been here since, I guess, 2015, almost nine, eight years, nine years in May. And really did when I got here did everything. And very quickly developed a cosmetic practice, and have been doing almost exclusively cosmetic surgery and kind of some boutique reconstruction since probably 2016 2017. So
Eric Bell 6:52
when to kind of dive into that I think people hear plastic surgery and they think they have whatever thing that comes to their mind of what that means. But what all does that consist of? Like what all procedures are you doing?
Dr. Jason Hall 7:06
So right now, most of my probably 98% of my practice is cosmetic, okay. And that of that it's about a 5050 split between above the collarbones. So faceless eyes noses next. And then below the collarbones breast? You know, abdominal plasti is body lift, surgery, things like that.
Eric Bell 7:33
Okay. Um, and I, I'm, you know, the prejudice here would say, hey, it's just women. But it's not just women that are coming in there. I mean, everybody's coming in there, I assume. Right? What's your mix of people that you see is? It's
Dr. Jason Hall 7:49
not all just women, but it's about 98%? Well, is it? Yeah, it's still isn't the I don't think in Knoxville, certainly, from my perspective, the guys seeking Cosmetic Surgery, that trend that you see in some in northeast and out west hasn't quite caught up here yet. A lot of us are still hesitant to go into the knife.
Eric Bell 8:17
Okay, so a lot of it is women doing this surgery. Let's talk a little bit about when you say, you know, when you started this practice, and when you started doing it for you? What brings you the most joy? I mean, I can only imagine that you are in the business of helping people kind of come to realization or get something that was that they've deemed not worthy or not necessary or whatever. And, and you've you kind of fixed it, what is that kind of? What does that do for you when you see the patients pre than you see them the day of but mainly probably the post op procedures, stuff that you get to experience? What's that do for you? You
Dr. Jason Hall 9:00
know, it's it's really interesting. It is a because there's a number there's a number of layers to the answer to that question. The most superficial part of that is that is the technical part is seeing somebody afterwards and looking and saying wow, whatever it was we were working on, whether it's somebody's jawline and neck, whether it's breasts or abdomen, so Wow, that's beautiful. That's, you know, I was able to do that that's really that's That looks great. I think the more profound the thing that I take home with me are the things that you don't really see unless you really look hard. The way that somebody stain we take before and after picture for everything and and document that journey photographically for people's medical record, but then also, for me to be able to go back and see what works better than what things that don't. But you can see when people are standing in front of the camera, in their after pictures, they stand different. Yeah, they look different. Even if you can't see their face. They're, you know, somebody who, you know, a woman who has always been self conscious stands in there before pictures, we have to force them to get their shoulders back. Afterwards, they stand up straight, very confidently, and you don't even have to see their face to know that they feel like a different person. Sure. And I think that part of it seeing that transformation over time, and then that those changes persist is really, really gratifying.
Eric Bell 10:47
Yeah. How how? And we're going to dive more into this conversation about, you know, the the way the reasons that you see people, you know, what happens to them why they do it, you know, just like we talked about the good, the bad and the ugly of plastic surgery. But how has how has a plastic surgery changed even in the last 10 years? I mean, I assume it was, at some point, it was a very barbaric surgery. And now it's, you know, as anything, we've kind of gotten to this minimally invasive type stuff. Is that is that kind of as, as you see it, too, and your world of things? Does it do this? Does a technology start to catch up, and you you're able to do surgeries, with different instruments or different things that are, you know, that can help the patient recover faster, less scarring, and all that? I
Dr. Jason Hall 11:37
think the technology is certainly improving year over year. I think one of the things that a lot of people would find, because you're in your business, that technology advances quickly, and things that weren't even dreamed of 10 years ago are common now. Plastic surgery, I would, I would kind of argue is a relatively low tech field, we've got a lot of high tech toys. But you know, what we deal with is, you know, anatomy, primarily. And if you really break it down, plastic surgeons are surgical anatomists. Yeah. And what has really improved over time, is our understanding of the anatomy of aging, of how things change over time, and being able to improve techniques to improve results. Yeah, and make it look more natural. Yep. A good example of that is a facelift. And you see where we are. Now, if people are looking online and following plastic surgeons online, there's a lot of talk of deep plain face lifting now, which is a not a new technique, something that's been around since the 90s. But it's really kind of evolved over time. And we're able to correct aging changes, make them more durable, make it look more natural than this kind of old pulled windswept, you know, standing in a wind tunnel. Yeah, no offense to Kenny Rogers, he kind of comes up in the discussion a lot of times is what people don't want. Yeah. And techniques have evolved. And our understanding has evolved to improve results.
Eric Bell 13:32
Yeah, I think that, that, that that makes a lot of sense. And I assume that you become, you know, you're like an artist, you become better at your, at your at what you're doing. And so the way that you're doing it gets the results that you deem really necessary, especially with your experience over the last, you know, 1520 years.
Dr. Jason Hall 13:51
Yeah, it really is. And it's one of those things, plastic surgeon surgery in general, is a humbling profession. Because you're in plastic surgery even more so because you can't really hide the results. Yeah, if you have an outcome, that's not what you wanted. You see it? Yeah. And so being able to sit and study those, you know, those pictures that we were talking about, over time, you see what works well, what doesn't work as well, and be if you're paying attention, you can kind of correct and grow and get better every day. Yeah. So
Eric Bell 14:29
as a physician, you know, I assume you also play a role a little bit of a, you know, although you're not board certified, you're not a psychologist. I'm not trying to say that on record. Okay. But you, you do have a unique experience of having to understand and deal with people's mental health in this in this field, I assume, probably more so than a lot of other physicians. Tell tell, you know, I assume that there's some listeners out out there right now, you know, there's probably a couple camps they see, you know, people that get plastic surgery and think what's wrong with them why they have to do it. They think that some of them are probably like, man, I've thought about plastic surgery for a long time. I'm just, I'm just too afraid or whatever the reason. And then there's the camp. It's like, Thank God, I did the plastic surgery, right. So there's, there's quite a few camps here. Tell me a little bit about the good side of being a plastic surgeon and kind of the, you know, if somebody's listening, what's your encouragement to them to say, yeah, it's okay to get surgery?
Dr. Jason Hall 15:37
You know, I think that's a that's a good question. And I kind of joke with the patients that there is a certain amount, you know, I am kind of a surgical and plastic cosmetic plastic surgeon especially, we're kind of surgical psychiatrists, we people come in the healthy side of this is people who are unhappy either with how they were born, you know, just take some a woman who has breast that didn't fully developed. And she's always been self conscious about that. And an augmentation, can help improve herself confidence, she can wear the clothes that she wants, she feels more confident going out in public, just being who she is. And so that is part of the, I guess, the healthy part of it. And then there is there's also the other side of it, where, and this is where it takes really a team. You know, the team, my team in the office, all of us interact with the patients at every stage, to try and really identify the people who are seeking a physical change for something that may not be a real physical problem. He may not have a background in anatomy,
Eric Bell 17:15
if that makes sense. Yes. Can you dive a little bit more into that piece?
Dr. Jason Hall 17:19
Sure. It's, you know, the we're on the lookout, and we're trained to be on the lookout for patients with Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Okay? Is that something your tell us tell us a little bit of so it's it is body dysmorphic disorder, in our literature, is really looking for patients who have had previous surgery, that may have a good outcome, but then are seeking more surgery to either fix things that weren't quite done right in air quotes. The first time that may or may not be a real problem. And one of the there's actually a book that was written probably two or three years ago by a very well known rhinoplasty surgeon up in New Hampshire. And what he did is he looked back over his career at patients that ended up having body dysmorphic disorder in his own practice, and surveyed all of these folks, you know, 200 Plus, of the of these patients that he saw with body dysmorphic disorder, and found there's a there's a large proportion of those patients that had some sort of childhood emotional trauma, whether it's sexual abuse, whether it's just verbal or emotional abuse, whether it's spousal verbal abuse or physical abuse, that kind of caused emotional ones, that then the patient's internalized and brought them to kind of a recurrent, you know, procedure after procedure after procedure trying to fix something that may or may not, yeah, no problem. Yeah.
Eric Bell 19:13
What's that like for you? How well let me ask this question, How common is this? This body dysmorphia? situation?
Dr. Jason Hall 19:25
It's in plastic and cosmetic plastic surgery. It's, I would say 10% 12%. Yeah. And
Eric Bell 19:35
so as a physician, when you start to recognize that, you know, somebody comes to you tells you a I need this surgery, maybe it's their first one, I assume their first one you're kind of like, yeah, okay, we can do the surgery, then they come back to you. Or maybe they've come back to you from you know, just like you just described, they've already had a surgery. They didn't they didn't like that surgery, they need another surgery. What starts to transpire with you and your teem with, you know, these patients, and how does it get played out that they just keep trying to come back for more, it's almost in my mind. It's like a drug addiction, right? They just need, they need more and more and more to try to fix something that it's not here that needs to be fixed, it's inside, it needs to be fixed.
Dr. Jason Hall 20:21
I think really, it goes back to the very basic tenet of medicine, which is diagnose before trading. And I know I was listening to, to your show with Sarah Patterson. And you guys got into this a little bit near the end of the end of that episode. The difference in aesthetic surgery is that the diagnoses a lot of times are subjective. Is is something you know, we're really we're taking normal and trying to make it better. Where, where is that normal? Okay, and doesn't? Doesn't, there's nothing that we're going to do that's going to make it better? And then where is that norm? Where could that normal be improved. And that's when I'm, when I see patients in my office, that some of the alarm bells are going off, they're kind of ticking boxes of things that kind of raise the red flags for a patient that may have some body dysmorphia issues is really kind of hammering in on what we're actually trying to fix. And that I found in my own practice is a good way to start that conversation. Because if I'm seeing somebody just with a, say, with a random plot for a rhinoplasty nose surgery, and they're complaining about a nostril being a symmetric or the tip being too big or too small, or and there are things that you really have to look hard to see that then we have to it's a very gentle discussion, okay. And I kind of tell people, Look, I'm trained to do this, I'm, I can look at you and I can look at anybody. And I can pick out little millimeter discrepancies between them. That's, that's what I'm trained to do. You see these little millimeter discrepancies? Because you're something you're focused on. You go to the grocery store, you go to a restaurant with one of your friends. Nobody else is going to see that. So is that worth the surgical risk, the anesthetic risk, the uncertainty and healing to try and do something about? And that a lot of times, I've found that discussion helps to kind of flip the switch to some degree. Yeah.
Eric Bell 23:12
You know, as you're sitting here, talking about this, it's, um, I think about, you know, and we'll talk a little in a few minutes a little bit about you have you do help, you know, do some reconstructive, I think, for cancer patients and stuff. And so that's a different type of a procedure that that really helps the the patient go into cancer, and I'd like to discuss that a little bit. But when you think about these patients who've come in, you know, purely for cosmetic stuff, what is something that it would be good for them? If they're considering that right now, what are some thoughts than some things that you would, you know, as, as I listened today that you say, hey, this, this think about this, like, think about why you're doing it? Or what are the things that maybe you would advise somebody listening today that's considering doing some plastic surgery?
Dr. Jason Hall 24:05
I think the I think the first thing is examining your own motivation. Why? Because that is where you know, when you're referencing doctor can stanchions work, that can that can be, you know, for me, kind of weird in borderline inappropriate in an office setting to sit down and, you know, somebody comes in and wants to talk about their breasts or their stomach or their neck. And you sit and say, I see that would tell me, were you abused as a kid? I mean, that's it. It's not really inappropriate discussion at that point in time. And so, you know, for patients prospective patients to really think about their motivations is you know, we looking at something that's always been up problem you've never you've had a hump on your nose and you don't like it? Or is there? Is there something that other people can see? Or is it something that is kind of more deep seated, that we really need to kind of examine before heading down the surgical road?
Eric Bell 25:20
Yeah. Yeah, I think you when we talked, the thing that really stuck out to me is, are you doing the surgery? Because you want to do the surgery? Are you doing the surgery because you think somebody else wants you to do the surgery? Those are two very different reasons for doing surgery.
Dr. Jason Hall 25:37
And those are those are things you know, I mentioned, my team, those are questions they're asking in some form or fashion on the front end? Because you do see a small number of patients who have a significant other who belittles them for a feature, that may not be an issue. Yeah. Or that is something that could be fixed. But it doesn't bother the person who's seeking to get put to sleep and have surgery. But it bothers the person that is sitting next to them on the couch at night. Yeah. And those are, again, those can be some challenging discussions, because a lot of times those people are sitting next to them. I think he's hammered. Yeah,
Eric Bell 26:32
yep. Yeah, I can see that. Man, it's a very, it can be a very complex situation, as all things in life can be, as I sit here, and I've thought about you, you and what you're doing, and, and all the work. Let's talk a little bit about as people age, you know, they age and they we've got this phenomenon with social media and everything that's like, I got to stay young, I got to stay young, I got to look young. What's that experience been like for you? You know, as you deal with these patients, obviously, you're in the business of helping them do that. But it's kind of, it seems to me to your point from earlier, from this one perspective of the windblown look to more of a let's how are we going to do this really naturally? So it doesn't look like anything was done? Yeah, how's how's that train? Or why is that kind of transpired that way.
Dr. Jason Hall 27:31
So I think a with rejuvenation surgery referred to it that way, what I hear a lot in the office is I don't want to look 30 I just want to look like a really pretty 60 year old. And that is completely healthy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to look your best, be your best where you are. And, you know, we do a lot of, you know, not only photography in the office, we have people bring in pictures, bring in pictures of themselves 20 years ago, bring in pictures of things that you think look good. And let's talk about those things. And it's when the photo of what they like, and the photo of where they are, or the them sitting there where they are, when those two things don't mesh, when you can't get from point A to point B. Yeah, that's when we have to have. And that's when we do have some really frank discussions about why we're seeing what we're seeing how things change when it gets kind of sciency explaining the aging process. And then talking about what's possible, okay. And I've, you know, I think I've don't try to do as much education in that exam room as possible. So that people because I feel like if a patient understands why they're seeing what they're seeing, yeah. Then all of that they they get the diagnosis. Yeah. Then it makes the treatments make sense.
Eric Bell 29:18
Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's a, it's kind of true with everything in life, right? We understand this, then this makes a lot more sense to you. And I can totally see that because you're like, I can assume, based on what you just said, there are times where you're like, no matter what I do, I can't get you to look like what you think this picture or whatever this is, that's impossible. You're that that can't be done. And at the end of the day, that that's not part of the aging process. Like we're all aging at some level. I mean, look at my hair, it's gray. I'm young, I'm 44 least I feel young, but I don't look that young anymore. But that's just part of the process that you go through and it's this acceptance of the stages of life that we're in that I, you know that all of us I was just thinking about the other day. In fact, I was on the peloton, er, this morning I was thinking, this 30 minute ride on this peloton is super hard and what I used to do in my career and where I'm at now, it's just, I have to come to the realization and acceptance of what's going on with where I'm at who I am, at this moment in my life.
Dr. Jason Hall 30:26
I think you know, that word that you just acceptance is really important. Because where we can get in trouble, as surgeons as patients is support for patients is if that underlying acceptance of where we are in that stage of life, isn't there?
Eric Bell 30:48
Yeah. Yep. Well, it's interesting, too, as I've sat here and thought, Jason, you know, one of the goals in this of this podcast was to try to normalize the conversation around mental health. And I think that, you know, there's a, there's a lot to this, this puzzle, like I have braces on. And one of the things that people would say to me in the beginning of my braces is, oh, man, we loved your gap. Okay, well, the reason I have braces is because my jaw line and hitting top to bottom and grinding and stuff. So there's, like a physical reason that I have to get braces now versus having a surgery to break my jaw and fix it. And so that's part of the and so in that process, people you know, but the gap has been an issue. Like I've thought about it at times, people always say, oh, man, you should keep it. And then then then I thought, amen. So I've bounced, I've had to balance like, just that. I probably broke my nose. At some point. I think it's crooked some people. And even when I did the ortho orthodontic stuff, he was like, Dude, what happens if your nose is not? It's, it's off? And I was like, Yeah, you're right. It is. And I've thought about it before, but I don't really think about it at times unless I stare at the mirror. But a lot of times, it's like, just accepting where you are with what you've got. And, and, and what I think about this is, it's interesting, too, because while I appreciated people sent me complimenting that they liked my Gab, it also just kind of makes it more aware that Oh, you didn't notice that I had a gap. Right? Yeah. And, and so I say this to say, you know, the, this conversation today, I hope, bring some awareness to people who come into contact with people who've had plastic surgery, and to be a little bit more okay with, like, Oh, they're not just like, don't just judge them and think that they're super vain. And that's why they did whatever it is that you see now of what they did with this plastic surgery. But to accept that there's so much going on inside of them to decide to take the risk to go do this procedure to change something in their life. Because for them, it made sense. And it will help them in their confidence. And accept people for where they are, I don't think we do a great job. It just in general, of accepting people for who they are, wherever they are and what they're doing in their life. It's kind of like mind your own business. But at the end of the day, that's the truth. Right?
Dr. Jason Hall 33:23
Yeah, yeah. And plastic surgery is, you know, it's all over social media has changed the conversation around cosmetic surgery, in some ways for the good. And I think in some ways for the bad, because there's a lot of sensationalism out there. I mean, flip on Instagram, and just search plastic surgery, you'll see all sorts of crazy stuff. But I think your your point is a good one. And I think about it, you know, going back to the to when we're talking about just a difference in the way people stand in front of the camera. When you you hear that that old saying that? I think that tailors and in the clothing people get you know, when you look good, you feel good. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a very similar feeling to getting dressed in an outfit, you know, looks good on you. But you're doing that with something that you're never gonna take off. Yeah. And that sense of confidence. Yeah. Is, is really, it's powerful. It is it is really powerful. And it's making sure you know, going back to the to the choosing the right thing to do for the right person is you're almost looking into a crystal ball and talking with somebody to make sure that what we're going to be able to accomplish is going to give them that feeling of confidence. Yeah, yeah.
Eric Bell 34:59
Totally, no, I just think I mean, the more I've just sat here and listen to you, and I really, this has been a great conversation, I appreciate it. It's just an amazing thing that I think that we all should think about. And is the like, why would we not want that for somebody? Why would we not want them to be the best version of themselves, as you say, more confident, more like, in touch with the way that they look, the way that they feel? Which it let's be honest, I mean, when you're, you know, we were talking about the holidays and talking about getting sick. And when you're sick, felt like crap. Yeah, I don't feel like doing anything. But when things are going well for you and your life, and you're confident and you're happy and stuff, it's like you can take the world on. And that's what, like, that's what that's what you give the people that come to see you is this ability, this confidence. That's, that's, hey, I'm confident in and they've probably lived a long time not feeling that way. Yeah. And,
Dr. Jason Hall 35:58
and those, those are the patients that I think benefit the most.
Eric Bell 36:04
Yeah, totally. As a kind of wrap up, Jason, the patient that I assume can sometimes be take its toll on you. And my guess is this assumption is the patient that's going through cancer, who's having some doing some reconstructive surgery, tell me a little bit about that perspective. And, and then, kind of maybe encouraging words to those people who you know, who that journey is where they are, or might be where they are of what's going to happen. So
Dr. Jason Hall 36:36
I give you an answer in two parts, one from one from past and one from present. You know, we, as plastic surgeons, we typically see the hard stuff, you know, if a cancer patient needs a plastic surgeon, it's probably not good. Because we're, they're, they're losing something that they need, whether it's a breast from breast cancer, whether it's a abdominal reconstruction, whether it's a you know, putting somebody's scalp and head back together after a after a head neck cancer. It is it is a major undertaking. And for that part, I think the acceptance is that, in the discussion that we have with patients who are on that side of the kid, their cancer journey, is that we want to make things as close to normal as possible, we want things first to function. Normally, if it's a body part that is a, you know, an arm, a hand, a face, that is a functional part, we want that to function normally. And then we want it to look normal, we don't want it to be something that people look across a restaurant and go, Oh, what, what has going on over there. And so that's, that's on the kind of the front end of someone's cancer journey. Where I am now in my practice, is that I'm, I see patients who have are on the other side of that, and we're trying to optimize where they are now. They've been through breast cancer and have been through their reconstruction. And we're improving that to make it better. And so, in the the, I don't want to call it a danger there. But there needs to be an acceptance of where we're starting. So that we can end in a better place. Sure. Because there I jokingly tell patients on that side of things, you know, I operate with a scalpel, I don't operate with a magic wand. Yeah. And so there's, there's a limit to what we can do. But there's improvements that are possible.
Eric Bell 39:09
Jason would is, as we kind of wrap this conversation up, I think this has been really an important one. And I it's been eye opening for me. And I'm really glad that we are able to to get this scheduled and sit down and actually do this conversation because I think it's a super important topic. And again, the discussion about normalizing all things, especially around mental health. I think that that's that was our goal today. And I think we've accomplished that goal. And so as you think about as you leave people on this in this conversation, what is kind of as you think about you've listened to some of my stuff before always have that turning on the light moment. What's kind of your, your turning on the light moment for listeners today as they as they listen to you, Jason kind of wrap this up.
Dr. Jason Hall 39:59
So I would I would say, if you are listening and contemplating cosmetic surgery, any any cosmetic procedure is really examine your motivations before you walk in somebody's door. Because unfortunately, there are there are a lot of things that you can do. But like my my grandmother, you probably heard this saying just because you can do it doesn't make it a good idea, you know, is examine your motivations and know what you're looking to accomplish before you walk into somebody's office. Because if you don't know where you want to end up any roads gonna get you there. But if you have a clear goal in mind, being able to articulate that goal, and have your surgeon, your injector, your esthetician help to guide you there. Everybody is going to be a lot happier with the the outcome than if you go in and say, you know, I'm just not happy with myself here. Do something. Got it?
Eric Bell 41:09
Yeah, it's kind of like you are a guide along their journey. But you also need them to be an active participant.
Dr. Jason Hall 41:15
Yeah, yeah. You have to have you have to have an endpoint in mind. Yeah, have to have a goal in mind.
Eric Bell 41:21
Jason, this conversation has been great. Well, we will put in the show notes. But could you tell people listening where they can find you? On any social media, your website? Just kind of tell us a little bit about where to find you and what you're doing in your practice? Sure.
Dr. Jason Hall 41:36
Yeah. My websites, Dr. Jason hall.com. Find me on Instagram at Dr. Jason Hall. And that's Dr. Jason Hall. And there's a lot of resources available on the website. I've got a podcast on my own where I talk and talk with other surgeons about different plastic surgical topics. I try and keep it really educational so that it helped the idea of my own show was just educate patients before they start on this journey, so that they haven't they it kind of gets patients away from Google to real information. So that that would be a good resource for people that any of those any of those avenues Well,
Eric Bell 42:27
man Jason, this has been a pleasure to speak with you today. And and thanks for shedding light on what you're doing and how you're helping people become the best version of themselves.
Dr. Jason Hall 42:36
Well, I appreciate you having me on. Thanks a bunch, Eric. It's been fun. Thanks.
Unknown Speaker 42:41
The turning on the light podcast as a palm tree pod CO production. Anthony Palmer is the executive producer and Garrett Wright is the Associate Producer. Thanks to our digital team, Emily miles and Caitlin Krings. Head to our website, turning on the light pod.com and follow Eric Ryan bell on Instagram to connect with us and learn more about our podcast.